Monday, 30 July 2012

The Red Issue Forum letter to Sir Alex Ferguson

This letter was written by long standing United fans who post on the Red Issue Main Forum, I didn't have any part in writing it but would be happy to sign it.

I post it here in the hope that it receives a wider audience, especially today of all days when the Glazers again show their true colours with an IPO that enriches themselves and leaves the club in debt.
Dear Sir Alex,  
As lifelong Manchester United fans, we are disappointed and concerned by quotes attributed to you in a recent interview. Many of us are the same fans who protested to denounce Cubic Expression back in 2005. These are the same fans who had previously offered you their unwavering support during your private dispute over Rock of Gibraltar's breeding rights, despite Cubic Expression raising some very pertinent questions. In the spirit of fairness, we would like to invite you to clarify these comments by responding to a brief summary of our concerns:
1. You suggested that ‘the majority of real fans will look at it [Glazer ownership] and see that it’s not affecting the team’. Can you clarify what constitutes a real fan? 
2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans? 
3. Have you personally met with any of the dissenters to determine how deep their commitment and affection for United may be?
4. What are your thoughts on an atmosphere which gets markedly worse each season as more and more local, traditional fans are marginalised and alienated from the club? 
5. You are also quoted in the interview as claiming ‘I’m absolutely comfortable with the Glazers situation. They’ve been great’. You are clearly aware of the opposition from the United fan base - does that not make you uncomfortable in any way?
6. What, in your view, would constitute poor owners?
7. You have repeatedly claimed to have been backed financially whenever you have requested transfer funds. Is this your only consideration when determining what represents great ownership?
8. You continued the interview by saying that, ‘the salaries, agent fees – is just getting ridiculous now’. Whilst we agree in tone, it does represent a sea change in attitude from pre Glazer transfers. Agent fees in both the Ferdinand and Rooney transfers were criticised at the time for being excessive, so why does the club now refuse to meet market conditions for the top players? 
9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?
10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’?
Given your personal background and previous support for fan involvement we hope you take the trouble to respond to our deep concerns about both the club’s situation and the wording of the interview quoted. 
Signed
Concerned Manchester United Fans

72 comments:

Anonymous said...

Where do I sign?

Anonymous said...

Hahaha sinking ship

Anonymous said...

Fergie cares about Fergie.

The end.

Anonymous said...

Tick tock tick tock

Anonymous said...

But real fans love the glazers.

Anonymous said...

aww diddums, Now I'm going to have to get get another norwich scarf for next season, I binned my last one when fred payed out.

Anonymous said...

Are you for real sir Alex loves man united you can see what he has done for the club if you criticise him go support another team

Anonymous said...

Can we lend you some money?

- Noisy neighbours

Anonymous said...

At least we've still got cleverley.

Anonymous said...

he cant answer them. i am happy people are begining to realise this guy is part of the scam

Stephen said...

yes yes, but fergie bullshits a lot, surely we all know that?

Anonymous said...

"he cant answer them. i am happy people are begining to realise this guy is part of the scam" i second this!

Anonymous said...

tl;dr

Your's faithfully, Sir Alex.

Dave said...

Dear Manchester United fans,

Welcome to the world we lived in under Tom Hicks and George Gillet.

I for one am disgusted by the way your club is being run as I feel it would destroy the English game in one of it's true institutions was sent to the wall and ruined.

I think it is fair to say that Alex Ferguson cares only for Alex Ferguson when it comes to money. He put the clubs needs after his own during the Rock of Gibraltar saga and is doing so again. You can be sure that he is to see a large sum of money from this IPO and that is more important to him than the long term future of the club as he will be gone in a year or two and will not look back.

I hope, for the sake of football, that United can find a way to rid themselves of the Glazers and move on but I doubt they will leave any time soon. They will just continue to tell more lies, milk more money and generally abuse the fanbase(that's the real fanbase, not the made up figure of 690mil fans) because that is what they do. One need only look to Tampa Bay for proof of this.

Best wishes.

Dave, Liverpool fan.

Anonymous said...

Tink is time dat d stupid glazers sell united 2 d saudi billionaires

Anonymous said...

yet scuder++++more says he is ownership neutral. the cunt.

Anonymous said...

In the big picture I don't think this is a Manchester United or Glazers problem but a Premier League problem.

The PL needs some mechanism to keep terrible owners like Hicks and the Glazers out.

jdw said...

Andy:

I'm trying to recall if there's a rule on owners / officers of companies not being able to sell shares for a certain amount of time post IPO. Perhaps the shift from 100% to pay down direct United debt to 50% to pay down is due to the Glazers suddenly needing Cash Now! rather than being able to wait out the period of being unable to sell shares.

Does anyone know the securities rule?

Anonymous said...

no wonder fergie and gill supports the ipo they get money

Josh T said...

As a Yank Manc, a 15-year long supporter, I feel embarrassed to be the same nationality as the Glazers.... I feel they are alienating me from other supporters.... We now know the direction the club is heading due to the comments from S.A.F.. Perhaps he is towing the party line or feels his job is threatened.... All that can be said is that if we do not take decisive action now, we may lose our club forever. We are not a mid-table side, we are not Liverpool....

Anonymous said...

Hard luck.
Love Glazers,, hate united.

Anonymous said...

If you love Glazers, you hate football.

Dave said...

City fans, the most clueless breed.

Anonymous said...

The 500mil number is bullsh*it.

I just don't understand why would someone, who knows so much about finance, lie so much about some things.

Why is now corporate tax taken into account (when talking about savings), but it wasn't important when making up this 500mil number?

They have cost the club money, a lot of money, but not even near the 500mil you like to talk about.

I liked this blog, as you can learn a lot of things here, but sadly, you can read a lot of lies here.

How can someone complain about Glazers lying, whe MUST and their "helpers" do the same. Why should I trust them to lead the club, when the are not honest to me, but are accusing Glazers of doing the same?

Anyway, some people should ashamed for deliberately lying to us, while pretending to be "friends" of Man Utd.

Anonymous said...

Fergie out

JoRed said...

@Anonymous 31 July 2012 10:25

Really the £500m is BS?!?.....

A superb article on the financial state of Manchester United by the renowned blogger Swiss Ramble would indicate that the £500m figure is not make believe.

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/manchester-united-tuning-in-to-capital.html

Quote - 'The money wasted in the Glazers’ reign is now estimated at £553 million, comprising £295 million interest payments, £128 million debt repayments, £101 million for various bits of financial reengineering (fees for takeover, refinancing, interest swap termination, bond issue and IPO) and £29 million payments to the Glazer family via consultancy fees and dividends.'

David said...

I 'll happily sign this letter better still I will write to Fergie myself. I used to think he was a God, how sickening to see where he has fallen in his own socialist values and his repulsive support for the Glazers. I will never stop saying this, boycott the club, it does'nt have to be in not going to matches, just stop buying anything and everything from the club. Is it that hard?

Anonymous said...

No United fan ("true fan" or otherwise) is happy about the Glazer situation. They have taken a huge amount of money out of the club and broken what few promises they made (e.g. the Ronaldo money would be re-invested and the IPO would be used solely to pay off debt).

Having said that, I still think Ferguson is doing the right thing. Managers don't get to choose the owners of football clubs and it's clear that the Glazers are letting him spend. Not as much as he would ideally like perhaps, but that's life. The Glazers spending policy is a lot like it was under the old PLC - as long as the club is winning trophies they don't figure much spending is needed, when the results get worse they get out the chequebook.

As Ferguson said, the Glazers "have to invest in the team to maintain the value of their asset". This is and always has been the bottom line. If the Glazers finances ever mean that they can no longer do this they will simply cash in and sell the club to someone else. They won't just sit there, watching the value of their asset declining until they and the club go bust. They are not stupid.

David said...

very difficult this but reluctantly feel fans now have to turn on Fergie, he has to get the message one way or the other. What world does he/Gill live in, honestly the younger, more rebellious Manchester United fans take to take centre stage. One for all and all for one. He makes me so sad that I feel like this

Johann Pall said...

The Glazers weren't at the club when Ferdinand was bought...

Other than that... some good questions. But Fergie will never see them so it doesn't really matter. I for one believe that the worst is behind us as the debt is starting to fizzle out. Let's hope for brighter times ahead.

1-6 said...

Fergie out.
Not in my life time.
Tick Tock Tick Tock...

Anonymous said...

Fergie should speak out against these parasites now.He is the only man who could rid us of these leeches.What does he have to lose?Would the Glazers sack him? or does he have a hidden agenda?ie acouple of extra million a year.Champagne socialist.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to say this, but what a pointless letter with loaded questions. SAF will never in a million years respond to this.

Anders - out of interest will you be writing about the new Chevron deal? If the Reuters figures are correct ($60-70m per annum) this appears to be a real coup. Also the Nike deal is coming up for renewal soon, and no doubt will be a substantial improvement on the last one. Income from TV will also be rising for domestic and oversea rights.

Whilst not a fan of the Glazer Gimps style of ownership, I am relaxed about the debt issue when taking into account all the revenue streams above growing. The debt appears to be comfortably managable, which should allow for sufficient money to be leftover for investment in the team/wages, as well for the Glazer Gimps to take their cut (as no doubt they are/will be doing). In a perfect world I would not want the Glazers to own United (or any other English football club for that matter) but we are where we are, and I honestly think the debt is not an issue.

Regards,

Greville.

Anonymous said...

As a neutral, the only surprise reading this page is that some of the people commenting about this piece seem confused as to where Ferguson stands on this issue....


Ferguson has ALWAYS been 100% behind the Glazers(well, he was anti Glazer until it became obvious that they were taking over the club)

Alex Ferguson cares about ONLY one thing, and that's himself winning trophies. Once he is in with a serious chance of winning trophies, he couldn't care less about the club or the supporters ESPECIALLY now, when he can retire at any point a hero.

I do realise that for an entire generation of United supporters that a lack success is unfathomable, but you need to ask yourselves what happens if United slip out of the CL places?? If I were a red, I would be SERIOUSLY worried right now and asking very tough questions as to what is going on.

Anonymous said...

Munich 58

Anonymous said...

Fergie is also interested in money as well as success. It's been suggested on other forums that "senior management" will receive 16m shares as part of the IPO. Puts a new light on the lack of transfer spending doesn't it? Why would you want to spend 34 million on Hazard when 3.4 million might be your own money.

Anniee Eaves said...

I don't really know what all the fuss is about.

This is RI dimwits getting their heads up their arses.

Anonymous said...

As an avid follower of the blog and an anti-Glazers fan, this letter is ridiculous. What do you want Alex Ferguson to say when asked publicly about the owners (his bosses)? He's clearly towing the party line...why? In the best interests of Manchester United, that's why! If he doesn't, he's gone...and where would that leave the club? These arseholes, ironically only interested in their own little power-base as 'true' Reds etc, need to get over themselves and their egos - there are more clever ways to protest against these Glazer cunts destroying our club than having a go at the man who has probably sacrificed more than any other to put it where it is today...often to his detriment in the wider media and among those who DON'T know him. UTID

Anonymous said...

IPO = Milking time again for the Glazer family.
LOL !

Anonymous said...

...but at least it's not the club or fans that are getting milked this time, just any investors who are daft enough to think United are worth over £2bn.

Anonymous said...

Not entirely sure what sacrifices you're referring to. It must have been really hard for him to scrape by, on only £6m a year.

If you've been to one game or bought one key ring, you've put more money into the club than either the Glazers or Ferguson.

Appealing to Fergusons better nature is futile, he's a big part of the Glazer problem, and will probably laugh all the way to the bank following the IPO.

Ferguson has a long record of looking after number 1, the idea of him "looking after" the club for the fans is laughable.

Anonymous said...

"Alex Ferguson cares about ONLY one thing, and that's himself winning trophies."

Not true. He cares about United winning trophies. That's why he's stayed here for 25 years and not gone off winning trophies with other big clubs, maybe clubs run by billionaires who would pay him more money?

I've no doubt whatsoever that Alex Ferguson loves Manchester United as much as anyone on this planet. If he thinks the Glazers aren't a problem, I'll take his word for that because he's in a better position to judge that than we are. If he thought he was being used he'd surely walk away.

Anonymous said...

He'll just tell you to 'go support chelsea'
Like he did a few years back 8-)

Anonymous said...

Dont worry Sir Alex Ferguson. Ive still got your back unlike some of the Norwich fans. Weve still got 690million fans (I know, Ive counted every single one) and half of them are waiting for a season ticket and the other half are about to trade in their BMW's MERC's and Range Rover's for one of them top of the range, luxury, jaw dropping, cheap as chips Chevrolet's. Cant wait for next season to join up with the lads, Ive missed the end of match showers, the bum slapping, putting Schole's pubes in Rooney's comb and telling Giggs his brother wants a word with him outside. Oh the laughs weve shared. Yours Dottingly and Sincerely HOWARD WEBB xxx

Stan said...

prick shit-bag cunt. Frank Swift died to you cretin.

MCFC loving it YOOF YOOF said...

Wouldn't say that them scruffy mibs might come to your house

Wouldn't it be funny if fergies on the take

Anonymous said...

"10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’"

250000*365=91250000. Come on get real, at least get your figures right if you want to be taken seriously. Your campaign is ridiculous, who exactly do you think is a suitable owner for Manchester United?

Anonymous said...

@JoRed - What about tax we didn't pay, what about dividends that were not taken out?

Why wasn't tax important before, but it's now?

If there is dividend not taken out, but also money spend on bonds, or just interest, he would never count the money which is not spend, but just add the tax money, or the money used to buy the bonds back.

Anders admitted himself that he counted some things twice, at the time it was about 80mil more, than it should have been, and who knows what happen since than.

What about commercial increase? PLC did not move AT ALL in the last 5 years, before Glazers came, but still Anders was saying it's not Glazers success that we have such a big commercial income and that it would have been done anyway. Just recently he admitted that they are doing a good job commercialy, but he doesn't want to take that into calculation. The new deal with GM, the DHL deal, Anders doesn't care, as these things don't help his agenda.

Swissramble was actually using numbers Anders gave.

I know what Glazers want and that's to take as much money out of the club as possible, but they need to keep the club successful.

But what does Anders want? That's the question. Thank God that he is not the only one who understands finance and lot of these guys say that he is misleading people.

I loved to read his posts, as I thought that you can learn some things, see another view to all this, but what he is doing now is horrible.

He doesn't want us to trust Glazers, which is fair, I don't, but why should I trust him if I know that he is misleading people, just to expose him self, or whatever his agenda is, and also, he is a guy who said the the commercial income can't go up anymore, so he isn't that good actualy).

And last, this IPO is good for the club, as it will reduce the gross debt by 75mil pounds. We are not happy as we thought that they will reduce the debt more, but it doesn't change the fact that this IPO is good for the club. And what does he do? He talks against it, like he wants it to fail.

Don't say that he has to be professional, because he lied to us, so being professional isn't really the most important thing to him.

Anonymous said...

"10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’"

250000*365=91250000. Come on get real, at least get your figures right if you want to be taken seriously. Your campaign is ridiculous, who exactly do you think is a suitable owner for Manchester United?

1 August 2012 11:06

Do you think they took over last year you cretin? Do your own maths before complaining about someone elses.

Anonymous said...

Also, how is Anders gonna count the 75mil we get from the IPO. The Glazers could have taken the money themselves buy not issuing new shares, but they are not, so it's like they FINALLY putting some of their own money into the club.

But I am sure that it will not be mentioned that way.

I only want the truth, what ever the truth is, but it's definitely not what's Anders giving us.

Anonymous said...

I find the anti Fergie rhetoric on here very troubling. Fergie has built Utd into what they are today on the back of over 25 years of hard graft. To claim Fergie hasn't sacrificed is ridiculous I doubt anyone here puts the hours into their own job that Fergie gives to Utd. As with most things he wont be appreciated till he's gone.

Anonymous said...

SAF was saying good things about Glazers for 5-6 years now and why, because of this IPO?

That's so stupid, unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

Andy,

Would you care to comment on the fact that throughout all your interviews on various news outlets criticising the IPO, why have you not brought it to everyone's attention that we're not permitted to buy back more than 35% of the bonds with the proceeds of an equity issue before January 2013? It's an incredibly significant limitation, and regardless of your feelings about the Glazers, seems a rather unbalanced argument to criticise them for not doing something they aren't able to do...

Here is a link to the prospectus, the pertinent section is the first main paragraph on page 2:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/pdf/ManUtdProspectus.pdf

Regards,

A fan seeking the truth

Anonymous said...

Lot of well informed "ordinary fans" on here posting with intimate knowledge of the prospectus and the running of the club - doesn't quite scan right to me. They all seem to be anonymous too - strange.

The common themes seem to be "I used to really like this site, but now it's crap", "the Glazers aren't too bad" - Come on guys in Glazer HQ, at least take the time and effort to create a false identity when you post, you're slacking.

Finally to the post that refers to Fergie's sacrifice 16:49. Reds not going on holiday with their family to go to games - sacrifice. Reds taking time off work to travel with the team - sacrifice. Reds choosing to buy their kid a shirt, but not go out - sacrifice. Man getting paid £6m to travel the world - not a sacrifice.

I've supported the team since before Fergie arrived. Most reds have. He is a great manager - no more, no less. United existed long before he arrived, and it is not defined by him, it's defined by the fans.

David said...

who is there to stand up for our club against the Glazers ? If it was'nt for the likes of MUST/IMUSA and Andersred we would have been screwed even more by these despicable owners. They will continue to rape the club for their own filthy greed and anybody who gets in their way tough shit. The Glazers represent all that is wrong in the financial world and are using lax American regulation to launch their IPO - Oh yes the IPO is not a guaranteed success, do I want it to fail, indeed, I certainly want the Glazers to fail

Anonymous said...

One upon a time two leprechauns and a kingmaker had a pet horse that produced a rare magic potion. The potion was very valuable. The leprechauns were very, very rich and the kingmaker while not rich was very powerful.
The kingmaker wanted to be king above all else, so with the help of the leprechauns he hatched a plan to take control of the castle where he worked. But the kingmaker needing some money tried to take the magic potion for himself. The leprechauns were furious. ”Why would our friend, the kingmaker, do this to us”, they asked at the castle where the kingmaker worked. This made the kingmaker very nervous because though he had many friends at the castle, the leprechauns were making life uncomfortable for everyone.
Dejected and forlorn, the kingmaker took to wandering the hallowed turf of the place known as the Theatre Of Dreams hoping that this wondrous amphitheatre could inspire a solution to the woes that had befallen him. On one such day, his ruminations were suddenly interrupted by a strange hissing sound. Turning, the kingmaker beheld a ghastly creature dressed in a wool coat.
Slithering over, the snake-life creature asked: “Can I be of assistance to you, kingmaker? I am a friend of the moneylenders.”
“Ye can fuck right off outa tha, ye slug thing. I say nay to debt”, replied the Kingmaker politely.
“But I can provide you with something far more valuable than the magic potion. I can make you a King one day. You don’t need the magic potion to own a bit of the great castle.”
“Yae can in yar fucken hole! Yae have no more money than mae, yae cuntish looking thing. Away with yea or I’ll boot yae in yar slimeballs.”
“But you don’t need money today to own a big stake in the future if you use the Power of the Leverage today. You only need to do two things: Continue to do your good work at the castle and, more importantly, you must defend me against the people of the land when they hear of me and the moneylenders. They will be furious and they will try to storm the castle as it is they who will pay the moneylenders while I own the castle. But one day part of that will be yours too.”
“An how can I bae sure to thrust yar spake an how much will be ma steak?”
“I need you and you need me, and for the rest we will use the Power of the Lawyers. I have done this before.”
The kingmaker looked beyond the viper to the great stand as yet unnamed in the mighty Theatre of dreams wondering if………………….

Anonymous said...

@anonymous - I don't work for Glazers, I just read myself when Anders wrote how he counted things twice, and that he accepted that from the number he is using the tax and dividend savings should be taken away, and other staff....

That's why I don't believe him anymore, even if I knew before that he was biased, but this is really to much.

Also the comment about SAF and the shares. Why doesn't he say that actually the club can save money with that, as the shares are actually bonuses if the team meets certain targets, but bonuses are always paid and it's usually cash, so for us it's better if they get shares, as the cash stays at the club?

Anders knows that, but he won't say a lot of things. At least try to think about all the staff other people say.

Anonymous said...

I think the storyteller as it about right.

Anonymous said...

Its interesting to hear the oft-repeated claim that "the Glazers have never taken out dividends". Really? They have taken out dividends in the form of "management / consultation fees" , and interest-free loans which have been converted / written off.( See Reuters article of July 7 2012 " Dealtalk: Man United filing shows Glazers borrowing ,buying debt"..It can also be noted that the Glazers debt buyback, by using Uniteds own profits to pay down the debt they heaped onto the club in acquiring it , is itself a pseudo-dividend...Chris, NZ

Anonymous said...

@Chris, NZ - but these numbers have been included in the 550mil number, so it's fair to deduct the tax savings, dividends saving (which there would have been under the PLC), the 80 or so million Anders counted twice, the increase in commercial revenue (as I said, the PLC didn't increase it in the last 5 years of their ownership, so there is no way they would have increased it much more than it was) or at least big part of it.

As far as I can remember, Anders also suggested to take a loan of 200 million and so stop Glazers from taking over, so he isn't so much against debt (because debt is very often cheap, but I agree that Uniteds one isn't, but Anders should be fair and explain everything to people).

I just don't understand why are people ignoring these facts (some of them were given by Anders).

Why don't they give us a real number, which is over 100mil, so still big one, but it's not near 500 million and with brilliant new deals (they are so good, that even Anders can't spin it) on the end it could all be very good in long term. I know that Anders is totally pro-MUST and they are "working" together so they will always be biased especially as they don't get a say in the club (what they probably really care about), WE should try to take all the information and make our opinion.

ja said...

Anonymous 02.42

"as I said, the PLC didn't increase it in the last 5 years of their ownership, so there is no way they would have increased it much more than it was) or at least big part of it."

What an idiotic and absurd assumption. The plc was always at the forefront of innovative new ways of increasing income. It is ridiculous to argue they would have sat on their thumbs and done little more. It amuses me at how the Glazer goons claim their heroes are marketing geniuses. If they were, why is e.g. Bayern Munich way ahead of them? This new shirt deal is no better than Barca and Liverpool for instance.Plus the Glazers are so desperate for cash, they accept lower deals from e.g. Aon (and prob Chevrolet) over the length of the deal for the sake of cash upfront.

Anonymous said...

Hi Andy,

This article is in Irish Indepedent today. Written by Olivia Oran.(Reuters apparantly)
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/olivia-oran-glazers-may-make-a-killing-on-manchester-united-investment-3188112.html

This is the stand out bit, but the whole thing appears to be written by a child reading from a PR blurb.

"To be sure, it is not all doom and gloom for the club. A seven-year club jersey sponsorship deal with General Motors Co , starting in 2014, will be a consistent source of revenue for the team. The deal is worth roughly $600 million"

No doubt who is behind this lie.

LUHG

Anonymous said...

@ja said - so why didn't they increase commercial revenue in these 5 years, NOT AT ALL, while the Glazers have a lot?

Also, they are not accepting lower offers, the AON deal was very good at the time. And how do you know how much is the Chevrolet deal?

Why is the DHL deal a bad deal?

And still, what with the other numbers, everyone seems to be ignoring them (tax, dividends, 80 dobul counted)?

Anonymous said...

Alex Ferguson: `not a single grain of truth in this allegation. I do not receive any payments, directly or indirectly, from the IPO.'

ja said...

Anonymous 12.47.
why not/ Because the plc did not need to, Debt free, big spending, expanded Old Trafford, built Carrington, successful youth policy, affordable ticket prices and all DEBT FREE.

AON paid a big chunk up front as a lump sum in advance. If the Glazers had not been in such need of cash, could probably have got a better overall deal.
I said probably about Chevy, that is all undisclosed as yet.
Did I mention DHL?
Dividends were a drop in the ocean compared to Glazernomics.
Incidentally another highly leveraged household name Findus frozen foods is on the verge of collapse thanks to 'financial engineering'- the scourge of modern times.

Anonymous said...

@ja said

The didn't need to increase commercial revenue? Are you serious?

You always need money, always, but not only that, Abramovich came in 2003, before the Glazers, and that's the time when SAF said that we can't compete with Chelsea, Real, Barcelona and that we have to change the way we buy. And you say we didn't have to increase are revenue?

So before the Glazers we couldn't compete anymore, so it's just not true that we didn't need to increase our commercial revenue.

And still, even than, that doesn't mean that the Glazers have increased the commercial revenue and these numbers, together with tax, dividends, ca. 80mil double counted should be deducted from the 550mil number.

andersred said...

Thanks for all the comments.

I'd ask all United fans to try to stay United through all this. We are all on the same side really.

In response to many of the points in these comments, especially on the "costs" of the Glazers, I'll publish a new post tomorrow morning.

Cheers.

anders

ja said...

Anonymous 18.10
Not they did not NEED to, but is was desirable. Which is why the plc was in the process of expanding OT to its current 76000, and may well have gone on to expand the south stand.
The Glazers desperately need to expand revenue to not go under. The club consistently posts a loss under the Glazers because of THEIR debt despite them whoring out the brand to all and sundry.
The plc always responded to outside threats such as Abramovich and always, for all Ferguson's talk, came up with the money for him - Rooney, Veron, Ferdinand, RVN, Staam, Yorke, Cole, Keane etc etc.
Apart from Berbatov, who was only signed because Ronaldo was already set to leave the following summer, the Glazers have never endorsed any big signings, with Ferguson coming out with guff like no value in the market, happy with the squad, despite labouring on with Giggs and Scholes. Fantastic players both, but way past their best before dates.
But what ifs are a waste of time, counterfactual conditionals are logically true.
You may be a glazer pr plant, who knows, only a blind person or employee would deny hundreds of millions leaching out of the club have not been detrimental. That is my final post on the matter here.

Anonymous said...

Too right Ja,

Why would any normal fan argue that the millions leaching out of the club on a daily basis is in any way a good model for ownership.

Don't forget this "model" has only been sustained by
1. Massive increase in ticket prices (despite firm and "sincere" denials at the time of takeover).
2. Massive cost cutting in staff, reduction in local staff, moving commercial arm to London, paying as many people as possible minimum wage.
3. Reduction in quality of on and off field product, speaking to a lot of exec ticket holders, the club is starting to take the mic with what is provided as part of the package
4. Reduction in transfer spend, impacting on the quality of the on field product. Despite media and Internet hype, this squad plays the least attractive football since '89.
5. Increase in media revenue - which the Glazers have in no way been responsible.
6. Probably most importantly - loss of transparency and accountability to the fans. A lot of people on here saying "we have no idea what's going on in the club, so we can't judge". This is a direct result of the Glazer ownership, and Ferguson's endorsement of them. To those who feel there's insufficient evidence to judge, I would say - if it moos, eats grass, gives milk and lives in a field - its probably a cow.

I applaud Anders call for unity, but a line needs to drawn in the sand and people decide which side they're on. The days of sitting in the ground wearing green and gold whilst lining the Glazers pockets are over. Btw Fergie's words would carry a grain more credibility had he actually said them, rather than released as a press statement.

Cantona said...

SAF hasn't really come out with anything new. Hes always been in support of the owners(which is mostly a smart thing to do)

What has to be reiterated is the Glazers are fully supportive of SAF so far and he has had more freedom in the management of MUFC than probably ever. Is a mutually supportive relationship between the manager and owners such a bad thing?

Having said that, the club's current financial predicament doesn't look to be resolving itself anytime soon. And neither should anybody be holding their breath about SAF coming out in support against the current ownership.

If you love United, hate Glazers.

Make Money Online said...

10 gr8 points

Kartik Iyer said...

As a lifelong man utd fan, I feel terrible that utd have to scrap the bottom for 'value' signings. £500 million on players, fan facilities & we should have won UCL 5 times in a row. We should by now be competing with real & Milan as super clubs in CL. Instead we can't compete for the very best. I feel angry because Glazers are abusing my club & I feel helpless. I will distribute sweets these scavengers leave my club alone.

Hoping I see a glazer free era in my lifetime.

A sincere & silently suffering United fan.